*irritably* Two complaints about "independent!intelligent!"Harry cliches.

[guardians_song]

1) Why is it so hard for authors to write both Dumbledore AND Voldemort as Harry's enemies? And if Harry is so smart and paranoid, why does he trust Voldemort immediately? The friendly act obviously could be a performance to make Harry trust him until Voldemort takes a hacksaw to his neck. Let's see that rebound off of Teh Chohsin Wun.
- And, even if Harry trusts Voldemort for some inane reason, why does he immediately agree to serve him? 'I just broke free from years of manipulation by an amoral master Legilimens of immense power, and I'm looking out for Number One now - I'll never be enslaved again. So what should I do first? I know! I'll slave myself to an amoral master Legilimens of immense power!'

In all fairness, I do understand that having two Lords simultaneously working to screw over one schoolboy has a 8191/8192 chance of ending very, very badly indeed for that schoolboy. Meh, too bad. Shouldn't have your story tags writing a check your writing can't cash, authors.

2) Why in the WORLD does everyone think Ron has the personality most likely to make enemies in the pre-OOTP Trio? Sure, Harry wasn't that ill-mannered back then (though, at times, he was an antisocial, snarky bastard - very amusing for the readers, but not so good for making friends).

However, there was a certain socially-inept know-it-all who initially managed to tick even the other Trio members off, had a bad tendency to boss people around and burst into spontaneous lectures, and got quite sniffy when contradicted. And that was her behavior towards the people of whom she was truly fond. Wonder how she came off to people who didn't associate with her to often?

To be harsh about it, the authors who rag on Ron's personality but completely miss the issues with Hermione's all seem to be arrogant, scholarly, and stuffy - So of course they don't see the problems with Hermione's personality. What problems? Oh, surely the only flaw with young Hermione was that she placed a little too much trust in authority!

Yes, I admit to identifying with the pre-OOTP Hermione, but I not only have that personality type (*sigh*), I grew up around people with that personality type. And believe me. If they don't know when to not attempt to spread their great and wonderful knowledge to everyone around them, they elevate people's blood pressure very rapidly.

Ron and Harry might not be the sorts to make many friends, but Hermione is the sort to make mortal enemies.
---

...Why do I care, you ask? Because I'm sick to death of Ron-bashing over points that aren't even legitimate criticisms, but instead are made up out of whole cloth. I'm sick of authors acting as though acting holier-than-thou all the time will only leave the reprimanded peons cringing in fear, shame, and awe, rather than generating overwhelming fantasies to punch Saint [Character Of Author's Choice] in the teeth. I'm sick of arrogant, pompous, look-at-how-smart-I-am, hypocritical authors making out with their own reflections through the medium of fanfiction...


...And, sorry, I'm PMSy today. *shakes head* ...I don't ask much from - let's be frank - Gary-Stu!unrealistically-intelligent-and-cunning-to-the-max!Harry, manipulative!careless-enough-to-enable-a-child-to-cotton-on-to-his-schemes!Dumbledore fanfics. Just internal consistency, a complete absence of reams of bullshit made up from whole septic tanks, lack of overwhelming arrogance, and a Harry that doesn't trade one controlling megalomaniac of a Lord for another. That shouldn't be hard to fi-

Anyway, don't mind me, just ranting. :D;;

Comments

[hickumu]

No, you've definitely hit the nail on the head - there is a definite corrolation between people who "identify" with Hermione (correctly or not) and people who bash Ron as being stupid or antagonistic or what have you. I would even go so far as to say the vast majority of Harmonians fall into that camp. Because those people identify with Hermione as being bookish and smart and "one of the guys", they can't bear the idea that she has faults, because that means that by extension they have faults, and many fanfiction writers are too young to have reached that level of self reflection. Hence, Sue!Hermione.

*le sigh*

Wow, Potter fandom. Just keep on keepin' on and proving that no one will ever, ever match your insanity. This is part of why I don't involve myself in Harry Potter fandom, even though I still love the books.

[guardians_song]

Glad to know it's not just me.

many fanfiction writers are too young to have reached that level of self reflection.
Or too arrogant. :\

Just keep on keepin' on and proving that no one will ever, ever match your insanity
Hey, I'm sure there will be a crazier fandom! ...Eventually.

Some anime fandoms do give it stiff competition...

[hickumu]

Well, "Twilight" sure as all hell gave it a run for it's money for a while! But I don't think even Sparkledammerung can top Potterdammerung. Especially not Lexicongate >_< . As for anime fandoms, I think it's more that they've got some staying power XD . I mean, when you go on for hundreds of chapters or hundreds of episodes, you'll acquire a mass of wank along the way, even if no single wank is greater than the sum of its parts.

...I spend too much time on fandom_wank.

[guardians_song]

In all fairness, Twilight had only four novels to its name. We need to scale the total insanity by a factor of 7/4ths.

"Especially not Lexicongate >_< ."
Well, Twilight has the advantage that Meyer buddied up heavily to her Lexicon mods, so I don't think they'd pull anything to kick off an equivalent to Lexicongate. Alas.

"I mean, when you go on for hundreds of chapters or hundreds of episodes, you'll acquire a mass of wank along the way, even if no single wank is greater than the sum of its parts."
True... I've seen some ridiculous wanks, though. Like the time a ship comm split into two comms because the mods threw a fit about pictures of the two characters in the ship that weren't explicitly romantic and about a handful of threesome fics that had the ship members as two of the three characters. -______-;;

[hickumu]

...man, I am afraid to ask what fandom that ship comm belonged to, if only because there's a damn good chance it was one of my fandoms >_< . On the other hand, a lot of anime fans can get veeeeerrrry scary invested like that.

[guardians_song]

Depends. Were you a Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles fan? :P

[hickumu]

*facepalm* Until it got too depressing and twisty-timetravel-y. So, for quite a while, and still very much an anime fan.

Fai/Kurogane?

[guardians_song]

*facepalm* Until it got too depressing and twisty-timetravel-y.
Eh, I think the last part came at the end, so you didn't miss much. I take it that you got to the part where C!Syaoran became R!Syaoran's father? I actually enjoyed that part for the sheer freaking insanity of it all. 'The villain's grand plan was to destroy Earth Logic! And he succeeded! :D'

Fai/Kurogane?
YEP. Ah, the kuroxfai/kuroganefai wankery. I... had a bit of fun with that and the Drabble Generator, back when I was fifteen.

[miss_morland]

Oh gosh, I hate Ron-bashing so much! It's even more aggravating when it's used to try to make Snape (!!!) look good. *sigh*

[guardians_song]

*sigh* Same here.

(People actually directly bash Ron to make Snape look better in comparison?! Good gad! Are those Snape/Hermione or Snarry fics?)

[miss_morland]

Snape/Hermione is where I've seen it, though it probably goes on in Snarry as well. I think SS/HG may be more prone to it, though, seeing as how it's constructed as a 'marriage of the minds' and all. (See: how Ron is a brute who's too stupid to live and who mistreats Hermione horribly, not to mention only cares about food and Quidditch, until the tall dark Potionsmaster sweeps in to save the day and challenge her demanding intellect...)

[guardians_song]

(See: how Ron is a brute who's too stupid to live and who mistreats Hermione horribly, not to mention only cares about food and Quidditch, until the tall dark Potionsmaster sweeps in to save the day and challenge her demanding intellect...)
Ouch. ...It's so accurate to those fics, though...

I tend to gravitate to Harry-centric badfics more than Hermione-centric ones, so I mainly see the Ron-is-evil-for-affecting-HARRY!11! side. It makes sense that Ron would get bashed in Hermione-centric fics too, though. *sigh* Oh, fandom...

[miss_morland]

I don't seek out Hermione-centric stuff either, but I'm friends with some Snape fans (some of whom are also SS/HG fans) and so I've read a few stories in the fandom. There's also an overlap in terms of writers/readers between SS/HG and Snape/Luna, which I sort of shipped for a while, and I remember the trope of "stupid and brutish!Ron" crop up in some of the Snuna Exchange fic.

(It's probably wanky of me to say this, but I was kind of disappointed to see this sort of Ron-bashing SS/HG in the deeply_horrible fest as well, provided it's a fest dedicated to Snape's being a bastard. Ah well.)

[redwoodalchan]

My guess about why people bash on Ron and not Hermione has to do with a couple of things, among them the fact that the later books bash on Ron a bit anyway, as well as a tendency to judge Hermione over-charitably since she's the only girl of the group. I know that in certain fandoms girls get hate but it tends to be girls who aren't expressly main characters, who act stereotypically "girly" (something Hermione conspicuously does not do), or who get in the way of popular yaoi ships. But, particularly in a series like Harry Potter, which after all is supposed to be about equality and feature Strong Women, people will assume Hermione is the ultimate example of such a "strong woman" because hey, she's a main character too! And she can do for herself and all that!

So, in a roundabout way, I guess what I'm trying to say is that girls who read the books will be strongly tempted to identify with Hermione because not only is she bookish like they are, but she's also the closest thing Harry Potter has to a female lead, and one of the only female characters who seems to count very much on her own (there is Luna, but she comes later; and most other female characters in Harry Potter are either supporting roles or evil). Ron isn't like that; he's just another guy, and they can't relate to a guy whom even his own author doesn't seem to like very much.

[guardians_song]

who act stereotypically "girly" (something Hermione conspicuously does not do),
I'd STRONGLY argue against that when it comes to HBP and DH. In HBP, she's relationship-obsessed to the point of Yandere behavior, and in DH, she breaks into tears, has outbursts of emotion, and acts as the Compassionate and Domestic type on a disturbingly frequent basis.

or who get in the way of popular yaoi ships.
*SNORT* Hermione - saved by the unpopularity of Ron slash!

one of the only female characters who seems to count very much on her own
Lily gets mixed treatment on this point, right? I seem to remember that Marauderfen love her and Snapefen loathe her. Then again, she is pretty much defined in terms of her importance to Harry and to Snape...

Ron isn't like that; he's just another guy, and they can't relate to a guy whom even his own author doesn't seem to like very much.
Yep. ...I admit that part of my fondness for Ron comes from his being bashed so much in fanfiction. He's the exact reverse of Draco in that sense.

[redwoodalchan]

"I'd STRONGLY argue against that when it comes to HBP and DH. In HBP, she's relationship-obsessed to the point of Yandere behavior, and in DH, she breaks into tears, has outbursts of emotion, and acts as the Compassionate and Domestic type on a disturbingly frequent basis."

I get what you're saying there, but that's not really what I meant. What I meant was that she doesn't do anything it's easy for delusional fangirls who never look beyond the surface to identify as girly: she doesn't like to do her nails or hair (unless it's a life or death situation, like the Yule Ball), she doesn't gossip (unless it's convenient for the plot), she reads scholarly books rather than fashion magazines, and so on. Her relationship issues and stuff from the later books is more subtle and so they don't notice it (and her yandere tendencies might even be looked at as a good thing: according to certain fangirls, a true "girly" girl would just mope if the guy she liked were dating someone else but Hermione is so progressive and daring for trying to steal him away or threaten him.

[guardians_song]

Ah. Sorry. My bad. I've hung around too many "feminist" circles of bad fandom, and assumed that by "girly", you meant "relationship-focused, emotion-focused, etc." Thanks for the clarification.

(Oi, yes, that's right - fanbrats think yandere = romantic... :\ )