guardians_song (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
guardians_song) wrote2013-03-11 08:06 pm
guardians_song) wrote2013-03-11 08:06 pm
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Ooh boy. (To be fair, she's partly right. ...By some of the wonkier definitions.)
"I think there are many feminists who would say that I am not a feminist. But, to me ... I love women, I have a lot of girlfriends, I admire them, they make so much more sense to me than men, and I feel like the world is a better place when women are in charge. So that kind of by default makes me a feminist. I love working in a female world." --Stephenie Meyer
Let's unpack this, shall we?
I think there are many feminists who would say that I am not a feminist.
HALO THAR CAPTAIN OBVIOUS
But, to me ... I love women,
That explains Alice and Bella's relationship. *cheap shot*
...More seriously, if "women" mean "women like Alice and Bella", that explains a lot about the Twilight series. It's not misogyny - those are the kinds of women she honestly feels friendly and charitable towards. Much like Cassandra Claire has vague 'well, I know these are good people' feelings towards DT!Harry, DT!Seamus, and Simon, but clearly favors her own kind.
And, you know, this IS a sexist double standard. If a man writes a story in which all the male main characters are creeps, and he seems to idealize this as the Perfect Male State of Being, we don't call him a sadly deluded misandrist who's a victim of his hyper-matriarchal culture or any of that bullshit. We call him an out-and-out creep. But if a woman writes a story in which all the female main characters are spiteful, narcissistic parasites and seems to idealize that as the Perfect Female State of Being, people don't say 'You know, I think this woman is either a spiteful, narcissistic parasite or wants to be one' - they twitter on and on about how she's a victim and deluded and what a poor, stifled thing she is.
So let's have it for the record - Stephenie Meyer really does love women like the ones she puts down as her main characters. That's not her thinking poorly of women. That's honestly the kind of person she likes.
Brain bleach, warm blankets, and scrubbing-pads available upon request.
I have a lot of girlfriends, I admire them,
I reiterate - she is NOT a woman-hater. Bella Swan, Alice Cullen, Esme Cullen, and the like are her ideal women. No, not in the "she tries to depict her ideal and falls short in a most telling way" sense - in the "that is her ideal, and it's only her attempts to whitewash them to others that fall short". Likewise, Leah, as somebody not into parasitism and willing to call Meyer's precious woobies out on their bullshit, is her anti-ideal... in the same way that DT!Seamus and Simon, as good, decent people who are willing to call Cassandra Claire's woobie sociopaths out on their bullshit, are her anti-ideal. ()
Let me point something out. Yes, Meyer treats Leah like dirt, while she lets plenty of male characters get away with the "same" behavior. However, Cassandra Claire treats good-hearted male characters like dirt, while she gives at least one of her female characters the Saint Hermione of the Draco Trilogy role, which is the "same" behavior. Does that mean she hates men?
No, let's examine it more closely. DT!Hermione, despite everyone slobbering over her, was a horrific creep. She made everything all about her own ~terrible suffering~, she never showed any sort of kindness or consideration towards people until they were ~dramatically suffering~ (so she could promptly show how deep and sensitive he was), and she emotionally tortured a boy who often acted like a genderswapped Ariana Dumbledore... For His Own Good. [Yes, I believe this behavior to have been taken up by Clary Fray in The Mortal Instruments. She's more DT!Ginny, but there are definite DT!Hermione tool-marks.] DT!Seamus... wasn't! He was genuinely a nice person. Which is why his extensive, brutal violation by a Dark Lord was treated as comedy relief, when any slight to DT!Hermione was the most horrible and awful of deeds. How could it be otherwise?
Likewise, Leah can border on being a terminal jerk, but her head's in the right place from the perspective of, er, most anyone who isn't Meyer. And that is why she's treated like dirt! NOT because she's a strong woman in a misogynistic work! Because she's a good person in a sociopathic work! I will bet you a fat lot that, if an aggressive, domineering woman who doesn't define herself around idealized domestic activities appears in Meyer's work, she will be treated very well so long as she falls in line with Meyer's sociopathic attitudes.
...Huh. Wait - come to think of it? That's Alice.
they make so much more sense to me than men,
Heaven help us if she thinks her female characters make sense to anyone.
Actually - no, heaven help us, she thinks that she understands women, and that women are exactly the way she portrays them in her stories. So we find out just why men get treated somewhat better by the Twilight narrative - because she doesn't think she Knows What Men Are Really Like.
...Ahahaha. Sorry, blokes, but now I really want to see Meyer gaining the conviction that she Understands How Men Work, and writing a book accordingly. This would be a beautiful, glorious trainwreck, and after surfing some classic old wanks, I want to see this.
If nothing else, some genius wanker would ship a copy to FPB, and we could watch Meyer and FPB brawling over The True Nature Of Masculine Love. Tell me you wouldn't watch that fight with popcorn in hand. Tell me that with a straight face.
and I feel like the world is a better place when women are in charge.
You what?
...Oh, wait. This is actually correct. It just requires being meta and blunt about just what is going on in Twilight.
See, openly, Carlisle, Edward, and the rest are in charge. But plotwise? Bella always gets her way in the end. And if Bella has no opinion, Alice gets her way. I mean, just think of how miserable everyone would be if Edward really had stayed with the Denali coven rather than heading back for his Bellamance. Or if Bella had been vamped pre-sex, leading to the nonexistence of Renesmee. Or if Edward had been allowed to commit suicide by sparkle. Or if Bella had broken up with Edward (as Edward insisted that he wanted) and gotten together with Jacob (as Jacob insisted that he wanted). Or if, any time that Bella or Alice disagreed with a man (or men), the men had gotten what they wanted in the end.
Wouldn't that be just horrible?
>:D
So that kind of by default makes me a feminist.
If you go bash your head against a wall for a while, this is actually "kind of" true. I mean, if you love and admire men, you don't understand women, and you think the world's a better place with men in charge...
...no, wait, that just makes you a misogynist.
I love working in a female world.
As I said - heaven help us, she thinks that She Knows What It Is To Be FEMALE. ...Good griefing gad, this explains so much. It really does.
And it explains so much about Twilight if you understand that Meyer's ideal of gender dynamics is "Male = Those Creatures I Don't Quite Understand; Female = Parasitic Sociopaths, And I Love Us For It". *HEADLAPTOP*
Analyzing this quote did make me realize one thing, though -
Alice is the Twilight-universe's equivalent of a liberated woman.
Heaven help us all.
Let's unpack this, shall we?
I think there are many feminists who would say that I am not a feminist.
HALO THAR CAPTAIN OBVIOUS
But, to me ... I love women,
That explains Alice and Bella's relationship. *cheap shot*
...More seriously, if "women" mean "women like Alice and Bella", that explains a lot about the Twilight series. It's not misogyny - those are the kinds of women she honestly feels friendly and charitable towards. Much like Cassandra Claire has vague 'well, I know these are good people' feelings towards DT!Harry, DT!Seamus, and Simon, but clearly favors her own kind.
And, you know, this IS a sexist double standard. If a man writes a story in which all the male main characters are creeps, and he seems to idealize this as the Perfect Male State of Being, we don't call him a sadly deluded misandrist who's a victim of his hyper-matriarchal culture or any of that bullshit. We call him an out-and-out creep. But if a woman writes a story in which all the female main characters are spiteful, narcissistic parasites and seems to idealize that as the Perfect Female State of Being, people don't say 'You know, I think this woman is either a spiteful, narcissistic parasite or wants to be one' - they twitter on and on about how she's a victim and deluded and what a poor, stifled thing she is.
So let's have it for the record - Stephenie Meyer really does love women like the ones she puts down as her main characters. That's not her thinking poorly of women. That's honestly the kind of person she likes.
Brain bleach, warm blankets, and scrubbing-pads available upon request.
I have a lot of girlfriends, I admire them,
I reiterate - she is NOT a woman-hater. Bella Swan, Alice Cullen, Esme Cullen, and the like are her ideal women. No, not in the "she tries to depict her ideal and falls short in a most telling way" sense - in the "that is her ideal, and it's only her attempts to whitewash them to others that fall short". Likewise, Leah, as somebody not into parasitism and willing to call Meyer's precious woobies out on their bullshit, is her anti-ideal... in the same way that DT!Seamus and Simon, as good, decent people who are willing to call Cassandra Claire's woobie sociopaths out on their bullshit, are her anti-ideal. ()
Let me point something out. Yes, Meyer treats Leah like dirt, while she lets plenty of male characters get away with the "same" behavior. However, Cassandra Claire treats good-hearted male characters like dirt, while she gives at least one of her female characters the Saint Hermione of the Draco Trilogy role, which is the "same" behavior. Does that mean she hates men?
No, let's examine it more closely. DT!Hermione, despite everyone slobbering over her, was a horrific creep. She made everything all about her own ~terrible suffering~, she never showed any sort of kindness or consideration towards people until they were ~dramatically suffering~ (so she could promptly show how deep and sensitive he was), and she emotionally tortured a boy who often acted like a genderswapped Ariana Dumbledore... For His Own Good. [Yes, I believe this behavior to have been taken up by Clary Fray in The Mortal Instruments. She's more DT!Ginny, but there are definite DT!Hermione tool-marks.] DT!Seamus... wasn't! He was genuinely a nice person. Which is why his extensive, brutal violation by a Dark Lord was treated as comedy relief, when any slight to DT!Hermione was the most horrible and awful of deeds. How could it be otherwise?
Likewise, Leah can border on being a terminal jerk, but her head's in the right place from the perspective of, er, most anyone who isn't Meyer. And that is why she's treated like dirt! NOT because she's a strong woman in a misogynistic work! Because she's a good person in a sociopathic work! I will bet you a fat lot that, if an aggressive, domineering woman who doesn't define herself around idealized domestic activities appears in Meyer's work, she will be treated very well so long as she falls in line with Meyer's sociopathic attitudes.
...Huh. Wait - come to think of it? That's Alice.
they make so much more sense to me than men,
Heaven help us if she thinks her female characters make sense to anyone.
Actually - no, heaven help us, she thinks that she understands women, and that women are exactly the way she portrays them in her stories. So we find out just why men get treated somewhat better by the Twilight narrative - because she doesn't think she Knows What Men Are Really Like.
...Ahahaha. Sorry, blokes, but now I really want to see Meyer gaining the conviction that she Understands How Men Work, and writing a book accordingly. This would be a beautiful, glorious trainwreck, and after surfing some classic old wanks, I want to see this.
and I feel like the world is a better place when women are in charge.
You what?
...Oh, wait. This is actually correct. It just requires being meta and blunt about just what is going on in Twilight.
See, openly, Carlisle, Edward, and the rest are in charge. But plotwise? Bella always gets her way in the end. And if Bella has no opinion, Alice gets her way. I mean, just think of how miserable everyone would be if Edward really had stayed with the Denali coven rather than heading back for his Bellamance. Or if Bella had been vamped pre-sex, leading to the nonexistence of Renesmee. Or if Edward had been allowed to commit suicide by sparkle. Or if Bella had broken up with Edward (as Edward insisted that he wanted) and gotten together with Jacob (as Jacob insisted that he wanted). Or if, any time that Bella or Alice disagreed with a man (or men), the men had gotten what they wanted in the end.
Wouldn't that be just horrible?
>:D
So that kind of by default makes me a feminist.
If you go bash your head against a wall for a while, this is actually "kind of" true. I mean, if you love and admire men, you don't understand women, and you think the world's a better place with men in charge...
...no, wait, that just makes you a misogynist.
I love working in a female world.
As I said - heaven help us, she thinks that She Knows What It Is To Be FEMALE. ...Good griefing gad, this explains so much. It really does.
And it explains so much about Twilight if you understand that Meyer's ideal of gender dynamics is "Male = Those Creatures I Don't Quite Understand; Female = Parasitic Sociopaths, And I Love Us For It". *HEADLAPTOP*
Analyzing this quote did make me realize one thing, though -
Alice is the Twilight-universe's equivalent of a liberated woman.
Heaven help us all.
no subject
I never had Meyer pegged as a woman-hater, but from the reviews of Twilight I always wondered what her gender politics were. She's not working strictly from a Madonna-Whore complex with her ladies, but they're far from ideal representations. And her males are mostly Heroic Antiheroes, but the one she portrays as the ideal is a bastard.
no subject
Which oughta say something about her ideal. D|
[Actually, the Heroic Antiheroes tend either to be bastards once you take a slightly closer look at them or be decent in-text, but have it made clear in out-of-universe comments that they're supposed to be like all the other creeps. ...Yeah. D| Meyer's got a hatedom for a reason. Even if I do think some of the haters blow already-bad things completely out of proportion.]
no subject
no subject
Who'd have thought that she'd actually come out and say it? O____o
"The Twilight series does make more sense when it's viewed through a "glorifying parasites" lens. :o"
Heh. It's actually common in badfic - bad guys are the ones who work their way up and earn their unusual prestige and power, the good ones are the ones who have it just dumped on their heads. Eragon's another example, as is Anita Blake. And let's not even talk about Cassandra Claire.
Cori Falls is the one Big Time Suethor that I can remember who went screeching 180 degrees away from that - the problem being that she then took said hard work as divine right to do whatever she wanted Team Rocket to do to Ash...
Anyway, yes, it does. Meyer throws up a smokescreen over it, but, in terms of how good their final outcomes are and how blissful they end up, the characters are consistently ranked in order of how much they're leeching off of other people and how little they worked to get where they are. :\
no subject
no subject
no subject
Which doesn't make the story not-sexist, of course, but it is...a different kind of sexism.
no subject
Yeah - when she gives in, it's usually not because she's ACTUALLY giving in... It's because she's already got something lined up to get around it.
Notice that the one time she receives a decree she can't weasel around, it results in the mental breakdown known as "80% of New Moon".
"Which doesn't make the story not-sexist, of course, but it is...a different kind of sexism."
Ja. And it's an important distinction when discussing gender dynamics within the series - mostly because it changes "glorification of an abusive relationship" to "glorification of a mutually abusive relationship".